SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii ? Civil Aviation Forum ...

82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:

This is good news for the Hawaiian economy, more flights (especially more LCC flights) equals more tourism dollars of which the islands are dependent. I'll start the speculation: OAK-HNL OAK-OGG OAK-LIH OAK-KOA LAS-HNL

STT757, I'll go with all but Vegas only because when Aloha was around they would have to make fuel stops, so maybe a LAS-OAK-HNL.

I would not be surprised to see OAK, LAX, SAN as the Hawaiian gateways.

Bags fly free on greyhound to HNL ?? US787

This wouldn't be the first "Greyhound to HNL", if you were ever lucky/unlucky enough to fly on either Total Air or Air America you'll know what I mean.

Well I did say SAN but PHX may be reachable (not sure) but it would probably be too tight for SWA and HOU is not reachable without stoping. I could see PHX and HOU as well as others served with a no plane change but not nonstop

Good news. Don't mind another competitor in the Hawaii market. They have a lot of route pairings to work with too.

Quoting hiloboy1 (Thread starter): Let the beatings begin on why SWA to Hawaii isn't a good idea. I for one can't wait. In reviewing the Hawaii market from the western U.S. at this point, this is what we have: HNL: AS - ANC / BLI / SEA / PDX / SJC / OAK / SAN G4 - BLI / BOI / EUG / FAT / LAS / MRY / AZA / SMX / GEG / SCK HA - SEA / PDX / SJC / OAK / SFO / SMF / LAX / SAN / LAS / PHX AA - LAX / SFO UA - SFO / LAX DL - SEA / LAX / SLC US - PHX OGG - AS - ANC / BLI / SEA / PDX / SJC / OAK / SMF / SAN G4 - BLI HA - SEA / SFO / OAK / LAX / LAS AA - LAX UA - LAX / SFO DL - LAX / SLC US - PHX KOA - AS - ANC / SEA / PDX / SJC / OAK AA - LAX UA - SFO / LAX DL - LAX US - PHX LIH - AS - SEA / PDX / SJC / OAK AA - LAX UA - SFO / LAX DL - LAX US - PHX It's not as though there is only room for one airline in any particular market but over the last year Alaska, Allegiant and, to an extent, Hawaiian have all filled in the gaps in the thinner markets. Where are the opportunities? Southwest's -800's won't go beyond the west coast without taking significant hits on the loads they can carry. I'm not beating up WN, they have a good product. I just don't see a whole lot of opportunity here for them. I think if they try to move into the Hawaii market they will only dilute yields for themselves and everyone else. Where I do think there IS a lot of opportunity for Southwest is in creating niche markets from the south, midwest and eastern U.S. (and to an extent, the southwestern U.S.) to cities in the Caribbean and northern South America. They have experience in these markets via AirTran already. The potential to use the aircraft for more than one round trip is much greater should they deploy them in this way - which is a big deal for WN. Flying aircraft to/from Hawaii pretty much renders that aircraft useless for much else. Just my thoughts - again, not trying to beat up on anyone, just the way I see it.

WN serves over 100,000,000 people each year currently, I'm sure some of them would stick with WN to Hawaii too. WN has a lot of connection possibilities.

You can't assume that just because there are certain carriers on a route means those carriers have locked in and have "taken their share" of passengers. WN can come in and easily leech of the other carriers to fill their planes even if the route has many carriers. WN has a very good brand and reputation among many loyal travelers I think it makes a lot of sense... they tend to go to a lot of leisure routes and do well. Why not HI?

I didn't realize that Greyhound had started flying planes? ? Don't really see the point of comments like these unless hey are to showcase the immaturity of the poster. Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 9): It's not as though there is only room for one airline in any particular market but over the last year Alaska, Allegiant and, to an extent, Hawaiian have all filled in the gaps in the thinner markets. I don't think the expansion into Hawaii is going to be very large for WN. It is mainly going to be to serve those who choose WN first on their existing travels, but don't have the option to the islands. If anything it is more about customer retention and serving the existing base while benefiting from expanding it a bit.

Don't know if it been discussed or not but would HNL need more room for expansion should more LLC or legacy airlines add HNL to their route structure? As I've never been there I don't know but being on an island one can only build up and not out after a while.

Quote: It's not as though there is only room for one airline in any particular market I think SWA will try to not replace airlines flights but expand flights in Hawaii. OGG, KOA and LIH have a lot of opportunity and I could easily see them becoming the largest carrier their. HNL is just a given that they will serve. It has a lot of flights but I could see them doing well their too. They have a vast route network to connect with.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 10): WN serves over 100,000,000 people each year currently, I'm sure some of them would stick with WN to Hawaii too. WN has a lot of connection possibilities. Very true how ever they will face stiff competition and to top it off those sectors will require more aircraft dedicated and tied up to those route. Do I think they will add it? YES Will they storm in and change the market completely? No. They will be another option and thats about it. It will also tap into the demand of its loyal fliers although if they are so pent up to go to Hawaii chances are they have and have experienced the far superior Hawaiian product which WN is at a disadvantage to.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 12): Don't really see the point of comments like these unless hey are to showcase the immaturity of the poster. I don't believe this has anything to do with maturity, it's a nickname that has been around since SWA began to fly outside of Texas. As a matter of fact one of Southwest's Senior Pilot who is a good friend of mine since the mid 80's jokingly calls it that. SWA to Hawaii will do what they've done for years, take folks where they want to go for a decent fare.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 12): I didn't realize that Greyhound had started flying planes? Don't really see the point of comments like these unless hey are to showcase the immaturity of the poster. Hardly immature, sense of humor yes...

If WN has an operation in the islands, I wonder if they will also do some intra-hawaii stuff too.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 10): WN serves over 100,000,000 people each year currently, I'm sure some of them would stick with WN to Hawaii too. WN has a lot of connection possibilities. I'm sure that there are some folks that would fly WN over other carriers because of their loyalty to them. Every airline has some loyal travelers. WN travelers have long been known for seeking value though and I don't see what value Southwest could offer over other carriers. As far as connections go, unless WN starts flying red eye flights the connection opportunities are limited to the western U.S., much of which is either already served nonstop or has a variety of connection opportunities already. Southwest has missed the boat on being able to offer something that isn't already offered. Another thought to consider where connections are concerned - Hawaii is not a huge destination from the southern, midwest and eastern part of the U.S. Many of those folks will opt for Florida or the Caribbean because it's closer and a whole lot more affordable. Southwest will never be able to bring fares down to a level that will make Hawaii an option for someone in Birmingham (or any other Southwest city on that side of the country) that is considering Florida or the Caribbean over Hawaii. Southwest is well known for their "Southwest effect" which stimulates demand and creates opportunities for people to travel via air that might not normally, either because of previously high fares on other carriers or lack of nonstop service. I don't think it's going to be as effective in any of the Hawaii markets they could potentially serve. I can't see where Southwest can offer fares any lower than those already offered and still make money. All I can see them doing is moving in, adding flights and diluting the yields for others and for themselves. That just my opinion though. Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11): You can't assume that just because there are certain carriers on a route means those carriers have locked in and have "taken their share" of passengers. WN can come in and easily leech of the other carriers to fill their planes even if the route has many carriers. WN has a very good brand and reputation among many loyal travelers I think it makes a lot of sense... they tend to go to a lot of leisure routes and do well. Why not HI? I agree. I don't think that ,by WN adding flights, they will stimulate a whole lot of additional demand - I think they will just take some customers that may have flown on other airlines, only diluting yields for others and for themselves. I think the pie will be pretty much the same size, just one more airline taking a piece of it. As far as them going to a lot of destinations that are primarily leisure oriented - they do. LAS and MCO are two very large stations for them. Both offer multiple nonstop and connecting opportunities to reach nearly every other city in their system. Absent red eye flights, the opportunities would be significantly limited for them from Hawaii, primarily to the west coast, much of which is already served from Hawaii. I think it would only further dilute yields that will, most probably, already be diluted for the reasons stated above. Just my two cents. Southwest executives are smart people. They run the most profitable airline any of us have ever known. They are prudent in executing decisions about where they send their most valuable assets. Maybe they will fly to Hawaii but even if they ultimately do that, I don't believe it will be a significant operation at all. [Edited 2012-09-21 16:57:02]

I think the redeye flying being attached to this agreement will enable them to do an efficient operation to and from HNL and whereever else they decide to fly. I doubt 100percent they will do interisland as they don't have the right sized aircraft as the 717's are leaving the fleet.

Quote: unless WN starts flying red eye flights They have said they intend to and with the FA vote passing today they now can. Quote: I don't see what value Southwest could offer over other carriers Well they bring 2 free bags which is big b/c if you are going that far you go for a while, Wi-Fi and TV via Row44 which Gogo can't offer yet (at least I dont think so) and most importantly they bring a large frequent flier base. You don't have to have something special to be in the market. What did AS really bring special? (Don't get me wrong, AS great airline, but to say WN brings nothing special, first off they do, none the less; AS didn't bring anything special but they succeeded in Hawaii.) Quote: I don't believe it will be a significant operation at all. Assume each destinations is tied to 3 Hawaiian gateways (LAX, OAK, SAN) each with 2 flights that is 6 flights per city. That is without SWA even thinking about doing maybe one SNA or one this or that. Its not going to be a small city. Not Denver but not 2 or 3 flights.

WN is not very good at transcons (HI flights would be similar in stage), or competing with AS, which is already in HI in a big way. I'm not sure what WN brings to the market that is not already there in spades. This is going to be very challenging for WN and very interesting to watch.

Quote: WN is not very good at transcons (HI flights would be similar in stage) With Redeye's they will get a lot better. Quote: or competing with AS WN can easily compete with AS should they want to but AS and WN are focused on different things thus WN doesn't care. People are mentioning the flights in Boise and all of those cities in the Northwest. SWA is evolving and the new SWA is not as focused on the Northwest so they are ending some flights and people are saying its because of AS and it is not. [Edited 2012-09-21 17:36:34]

26 airliner371: With redeyes they will improve drastically. With their frequent flier base alone they can handle Hawaii. And they bring a lot to the table. i.e. A bu

27 MaverickM11: Currently they can't. Even if they choose to, since AS has lower costs, first class, a competent res system, and assigned seats. That will help. Plus

28 airliner371: Yes, they can. They compete and have beaten AS in many routes. Lower costs but SWA can fly with higher yielding pax because they have a loyal custome

29 AirframeAS: Like what routes? Intra-Cali, I'll give you that, but what other routes does WN beat AS on?

30 airliner371: I had a list but it is not on my new computer for some reason. It included multiple routes outside of cali. We can go on all day debating if SWA can

32 airliner371: No, my bad, poor wording on my part. 3 US mainland gateways to HNL, OGG, KOA and LIH.

33 YYZAMS: I wonder if they are copying AS or WestJet. WestJet has a 757 flying there so maybe WN will get one too. I would fly WestJet over WN as they have PTVs

34 airliner371: Well they bring 2 free bags which is big b/c if you are going that far you go for a while, Wi-Fi and TV via Row44 which Gogo can't offer yet (at leas

35 luvfa: With the FA ratification vote we are likely to see SJU before HI service. Airtran currently flies to SJU from ATL, TPA, FLL and BWI. With Near Interna

36 mtnwest1979: I certainly hope the Caribbean area comes online before HI. AK as well for that matter. Will be interesting to see where the flights will be from.

37 airliner371: You missed MCO. We will probably see TPA, FLL, MCO, BWI and maybe 2 new cities go to WN but until that codeshare is in place FL will probably keep th

38 flyer737sw: A strong rumor has it that WN will start into Hawaii with a bang. Service will enter into the islands to HNL, OGG and KOA From the mainland cities inc

39 airliner371: I have heard this rumor as well. SWA could be taking a while not only for the contract to pass but to get enough -800s to operate all of this.

40 AirframeAS: AS service is a hell of a lot better than what WN offers. WN offers the bare minimum, to me, outside of the free checked bag charade.

41 airliner371: Thats your opinion. I gave you facts of what WN brings.

42 AirframeAS: AS offers wifi on most of their aircraft, you know that, right? I find AS wifi much better than what WN offers. WN's wifi is nothing to write home ab

43 airliner371: Yes I do know that, but Gogo doesn't work over the Pacific ocean. It may be a gimmick but it works. Southwest continues to fill its planes so I don't

44 sancho99504: DL also serves HNL from SFO departs 1850 on a 753 UA from DEN at 1155 with 763

45 strfyr51: Ogg and LIH, the Largest Carrier?? Really?? when were you there last?? I know they could land at the Interisland Terminal at HNL and replace the Aloh

46 DocLightning: Or United... WN is no longer a low-fare carrier. A flight on WN is competitive with other carriers. People who choose to fly WN do so because they ar

47 SANFan: If this rumor turns out to be true, I will be extremely surprised. That's a LOT of stations to have to staff with ETOPS-trained people and special eq

48 DeltaMD90: Those 717s are going to DL. They might deploy them there for the time being but I don't see a sustained inter-island feeder (why start it up only to

49 XT6Wagon: When they started looking at larger planes, Boeing was planning on having the 737RS EIS in the 2016-2018 range at the latest with the engines being t

50 rj777: So if WN goes Island hopping, it looks like they will be the replacement (Albeit several years late) for Aloha.

51 MaverickM11: Airlines don't cut profitable flying. WN cut the Northwest because it couldn't afford to continue flying as much capacity in the Northwest. AS can do

52 slcdeltarumd11: ANOTHER a.net rumor that was bs this week about swa not even going thru with etops

53 PHX787: PHX may have to be extremely weight-restrained. I also think that if WN gets the 739MAX, they'd have the capabilities to fly PHX-HNL. HOU- nope. Not

54 Maverick623: Possibly PHX, although as said the airplanes they have will take severe weight restrictions. I've actually seen it more than once where someone will

55 ASFlyer: What do redeyes have to with Southwest being good or not at transcons (or flights of similar length) The biggest thing AS brought were direct flights

56 737tdi: I have held my tongue for several years. AS is a great airline. Remember, we (WN) started with 3 airplanes 40? years ago. I think AS is in for a rude

57 ASFlyer: I think WN deserves all the respect it's given. They have turned the U.S. airline business upside down with their no nonsense style of doing business

58 san88: Since when did this thread become WN versus AS ...... SMH :/

59 barney captain: With what aircraft? Maybe the MAX, but certainly not the -800. The -800 won't reliably make PHX/LAS to HI. Even out of some west coast cities it is v

60 Maverick623: Yep, they're just getting their planes ETOPS certified for the heck of it.

61 STT757: A couple United corrections: Lihue- LAX, SFO, DEN (SA) Kona- LAX, SFO, DEN (SA) Maui- LAX, SFO, DEN (SA) Hilo- LAX Honolulu- LAX, SFO, DEN

62 AirframeAS: I don't care about that. The point I was making, again - in which you ignored, is that the wifi that AS offers is far more superior than what WN is o

63 RWA380: Three letters ATA...... IIRC, SFO-HNL was dropped by AA some years ago, I flew it in 2004 IIRC, on a 763, but was dropped shortly after that Maybe as

64 bobnwa: How do you account that quite regularly, Southwest is last among US carriersin the monthly load factor report in ATW (Air transport World).

65 airliner371: AS offers superior Wi-Fi. Did rather. Row44 last week (I think last week) actually doubled the speed of N. American Wi-Fi. If you have not been on a

66 ASFlyer: Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 55): I have serious doubt about WN's Hawaii intentions. Yep, they're just getting their planes ETOPS certified for the heck of

67 ak: What a Jackass comment from from Mr. High and Mighty! Hows that for immaturity! Geez, some people on this site think they are just way above everyone

68 DocLightning: They don't have the aircraft for it. HNL-OGG is a 23 minute flight. You simply cannot do that with the CFM's on the 73G without tearing the engines u

69 questions: Given all the comments in various forums about the "full service" legacy airlines and the old/dirty/worn/you-name-it aircraft they choose for flights

70 questions: Do any A320 variants have range and ETOPs to fly west coast US to HI? I'm thinking specifically about B6 and VX.

71 Bluewave 707: I, for one, would be curious to see how much WN will invest in infrastructure in Hawai?i with people, ground ops (above & below the wings), equi

72 MaverickM11: The same could be said for all the transcons WN has generally shied away from, so again I'm not sure what WN is bringing to the party beyond their lo

73 slcdeltarumd11: i agree it shouldnt be especially since i dont think southwest is targeting them. Its the legacies that Southwest will be the biggest pain for plus H

74 airliner371: Why does an airline need to bring something to the party? I have listed multiple things WN brings anyway. What did AS bring that other airlines didn'

76 n901wa: I wish Southwest Good luck with Hawaii ops. I personaly think it will not affect Alaska that much. Alaska and the other Carriers flying to Hawaii have

77 AirframeAS: Well, this is how I feel: That thing WN people have is going to come and bite them in the butt one day when an airline attacks them and they think th

78 bjorn14: Just curious as to why any FA would vote against Hawai'i? Was international in the scope of this vote too? Did the pilots vote too?

79 aztrainer: I could see them doing ONT as they have a major presence and it is an area of the LA area that it not serviced to HA. LAS/PHX will see flights, but i

80 SANFan: I'm sure this question has been answered already (hopefully not on this thread since I've then missed it) but could someone please clarify whether WN'

81 usflyguy: The owned -800's are ETOPS the leased ones are not. There are over 20 ETOPS planes in the fleet now and ETOPS is painted on the wheel well.

Top Of Page

Forum Index

Source: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5569492/

va tech dan gilbert david stern david stern julian beever appeasement ian stewart